Adam?

What scene is immediately before 16 Reasons? This one ...

Btw, also relevant to this thread, two very limited edition bobble hats I managed to lay my hands on a couple of months ago.

Ok, You have to tell us where you found those.

sorry, i couldn't restrain myself.

blu wrote:What scene is immediately before 16 Reasons? This one ...

Hahahaha! That's awesome!

Wow, I'd never noticed that "A" before at all, that is great. I haven't seen A Clockwork Orange for a long time, I'll have to ponder over why (if at all) that movie would be referenced in that particular scene, I don't see many easy links between the two.

As for the toques, those are great! I'm not sure the Lynch one is distinctive enough for people to make the reference, but I'm sure you'd get the occasional knowing smile with The Shining carpet one!

Alacrates wrote:I haven't seen A Clockwork Orange for a long time, I'll have to ponder over why (if at all) that movie would be referenced in that particular scene, I don't see many easy links between the two.

It may not be intended to be a thematic link... maybe just a subtle tribute to Kubrick. :)

derekfnord wrote:

Alacrates wrote:I haven't seen A Clockwork Orange for a long time, I'll have to ponder over why (if at all) that movie would be referenced in that particular scene, I don't see many easy links between the two.

It may not be intended to be a thematic link... maybe just a subtle tribute to Kubrick. :)

Absolutely right. Not necessarily anything that will help you unlock any secret messages in MD, just David tipping his cap, so to speak. Really smart.

kmkmiller wrote:

sorry, i couldn't restrain myself.

I love this. Brilliant.

These are the guys who made the hats. There will be more Overlooks, but I think the Black Lodge has finished its run. There's only a few hundred of each in existence. I got very lucky in getting them. Releases have been 100 at a time, and literally sell out in seconds.

http://shop.casualco.com/product/the-we ... al-edition

Alacrates wrote:As for the toques, those are great! I'm not sure the Lynch one is distinctive enough for people to make the reference, but I'm sure you'd get the occasional knowing smile with The Shining carpet one!

Sorry for so many multiple posts, but it's late here and I would have struggled to copy paste all these quotes into one thread. But yes. People spot the Overlook carpet quite a lot and get the reference, but the Black Lodge sneaks under the radar a lot. I'm completely in love with them both. Two of my most treasured possessions.

derekfnord wrote:It may not be intended to be a thematic link... maybe just a subtle tribute to Kubrick. :)

I've never been a big fan of the random homage (which doesn't mean that they don't exist!). On the other hand, some of the other movies that seem to be referenced in MD, like Chinatown or Sunset Blvd., seem to offer deep parallels, I'd be surprised if there weren't insights to be had by juxtaposing the two films.

On the other hand again though, haha, I'm not sure I want to subject my brain to seeing Clockwork Orange again (!), seems very violent & transgressive, the book is a much less jarring experience. Maybe best to leave any possible connections alone...

Just in terms of that scene being a reference at all, the prominence of the colour orange (in addition to the ever-present pink & blue), and the clock on the wall, seem to be lend weight to that as well.

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I had been thinking about the connections between The Shining and Eraserhead again, and then I thought, pretty obviously, they are both stories about fathers of young families, who are tormented by their positions, and relationships to their wives. In both, the protagonist seems to be at the mercy of larger spiritual forces (The Man in the Planet, the ghost of the past of The Overlook Hotel) and both seem to have spirit mentors (The Woman in the Radiator, The Bartender/Grady). Also, in a parallel to MD, many people see in The Shining a hidden backstory of abuse, the details of which are only alluded to in almost subliminal manifestations.

I've been getting more into Kubrick recently, so I've been pondering Kubrick's works more against each other than comparing them to other director's like Lynch, but I was reading through Beautiful Dark by Greg Olson, where he talked about the relation between The Shining and Lynch's work, kind of feel like the original post here was substantiated by that.

Beautiful Dark is a really interesting book on Lynch, written by a long time friend of Lynch's, an art curator who has interviewed Lynch at intervals over the years and has worked together with Lynch on several showings of his movies.

In The Shining Lynch saw an echo of his favorite theme of domestic security or a person's consciousness/selfhood being threatened by dark energies[...] Years after seeing Kubrick's film, Lynch introduced this sense of repeating metaphysical cycle of evil into Twin Peaks (a phonograph needle at the end of a record clicks and clicks like a metronome accompaniment to a gastly murder; and oracular character in another part of town intones, "it is happening again"[...]

The Shining reinforced Lynch's fondness for portraying villans as animalistic brutes[...] We note that both Jack and [...] BOB wear blue jeans and waist-length denim jackets, have long hair, grizzled beards, and a snarling verbal delivery, and move crouching low to the ground...

Lynch's favorite Kubrick film, though, was apparently Lolita, which he called "a perfect film" and Olsen notices that the backdrop for the credit sequence of that film are some very Lychian curtains, and a theme of white picket fences, cherry pie, intolerable domestic relationships, secret emotional lives, etc.

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I see there's a pdf version of Beautiful Dark available online: http://e-edu.nbu.bg/pluginfile.php/3004 ... _Lynch.pdf

I think I'll have to read that finally. Thanks for finding!!!

The Shining reinforced Lynch's fondness for portraying villans as animalistic brutes[...] We note that both Jack and [...] BOB wear blue jeans and waist-length denim jackets, have long hair, grizzled beards, and a snarling verbal delivery, and move crouching low to the ground...

So here's one of the funny things, because the story goes, as Lynch tells it, BOB came about purely by chance, there was Frank Silva, a set designer, accidentally caught on camera during shooting a scene. blue jeans, denim jacket, long hair, grizzled beard, crouching all intact. so how can it both be inspired by THE SHINING and also be just a coincidence brought about by a happy accident??

Interesting question I think that applies to a lot of Lynch references.

This is as good a place as any to point out that I think Aunt Ruth is a set designer. She has all the props in that luggage and she also seems to find herself caught on camera a few times.

kmkmiller wrote: blue jeans, denim jacket, long hair, grizzled beard, crouching all intact. so how can it both be inspired by THE SHINING and also be just a coincidence brought about by a happy accident??

Actually, that is a good point! That book is a pretty comprehensive resource of biography, analysis and personal interviews with Lynch, but the author does a lot of times move from something he's verified in conversation with Lynch or by research to his own ideas without letting you know where the line is - still a great book overall, just needs some discernment from the reader, haha.