Glad you're intrigued.

What I was saying is that coming to the conclusion that Camilla represents the lamp lady would be a wrong conclusion (in my opinion) - it's the kind of thing Lynch is trying to 'mislead' people into making (or more correctly, to allow them to mislead themselves). Camilla is a real woman whom Diane placed a hit on, in order to get a role in Adam's movie and also because she's jealous. However, in Diane's 'fantasy-flashback' of the encounter with Camilla on the couch, what's being represented is Daine's lesbian relationship with DeRosa (LL).

Actually I just did some work on this, and I now believe there was no sex between Camilla and Diane. Diane only fantasized having sex with Camilla. But even if there was any sex between Diane and Camilla (apparently, Diane is bisexual), the real reason Diane's jealous when she sees Camilla kiss Adam, is because she's in love with Adam. In regard to this, recall the 'love at first sight' look Betty gives Adam when she walks onto his set. (the one where he's auditioning the blond 'Camilla Rhodes')

Me too!

Fonebone, thanks for the opint about LL moving out and Aunt Ruth moving out, I hadn't noticed that connection before! I understand the leaving Aunts to be speaking about Diane's feelings of abandonment caused by the fact that no one protected her from her child hood abuser. The fact that LL moving out prompts a return of these feelings makes Diane's murderous and suicidal tendancies understandable.

I have always thought that the apartment 'switch' was really a moving apart as part of a break up, but I can't quite work out exactly how this would work. Diane moves into no 12 then moves in with LL at no 17, then they break up and LL takes over no 12? Hmm bit odd.

I also wonder if LL is Diane's pimp? In the Dream LL answers the door and says she'll accompany Betty and Rita, but then the PHONE RINGS and she says 'I have to take this' HAVE TO, as in obligation. Is the red lampshade room in no. 12?

An aside: I think the real love story in MD is between Diane and herself. Can she learn to love herself? The fantasised relationship with Camilla is really an attempt to love herself, because Camilla is Diane's alter-ego. This is what we see when Adam and Betty catch sight of each other. It's Diane seeing herself, the undamaged beautiful person that's at the core of Diane. It's the most heartbreaking moment of the whole movie for me.

Siku...RE: The "switch" was a breakup. I thought so too... and then someone shot it down by pointing out that not only were LL's dishes in boxes, but so were Diane's. And I couldn't come up with an answer. RE: the phone call that LL "HAS" to take. Yeah. Something going on there. LL seemed to really want to accompany the two women to 17. And there wasn't ANY hesitation... she was all over the phone. RE: The real love story is between Diane and herself. Yep. My most heart breaking moment was when Diane left the cab for the audition. That bittersweet music played, and I knew that the audition didn't matter, her affair with Rita didn't matter, nothing mattered. This was NOT going to have a happy ending.

Cowboy and Siku,
Yeah, I'm more and more believing that Diane was in love with herself, that this was the "story". Especially since I think Rita is not only a representation of Camilla, but also she represents some component of Diane's psyche. I'm not sure whether the sexual union of Rita and Betty represents the (dream-)integration of Diane's psyche, which would be healthy, or if it represents Diane's conscious and unconscious actually uniting, which would result in insanity.

As far as LL (LJ DeRosa), here's what I think is going on:
Initially, Diane lived in no. 12 and DeRosa in no. 17. At some point the two women met and became friends, so Diane moved into 17 to be DeRosa's roommate so that both could save on rent (but there was not lesbian relationship - DeRosa kept using the master bedroom and Diane used the second one.) Then at some point Diane made one or more sexual advances toward LJ and was rebuked, and this created an uncomfortable situation. Since Diane knew detectives would be looking for her, she convinced DeRosa to move into no. 12 (Diane's old apartment). Thus the dream of Aunt Ruth looking in the master BR for the 'noise' from the box dropping, represents DeRosa looking in the master of no. 12 (clue no. 10: "Where is Aunt Ruth").

This explains why when Betty and Rita call no. 12, they get DeRosa's voice recording. It also explains why the detectives initially looked in no. 12. Cowboy - it's true the detectives would stake out the apartments and make other attempts at both 17 and 12, but remember, Betty used a back way into the apartments while her and Rita were in the taxi - this represents Diane's real-life eluding of the detectives. Combined with being asleep as well as simply not answering her door for three weeks (DeRosa: "it's been three weeks"), until finally she awakens at the end and the detectives come by that fateful night. The detectives had been assuming Diane was not home. (I doubt that they'd have a warrant to break into no. 12 based solely on what they heard from the therapist. Also, it appears that Diane is no longer working by this point, so she'd have less reason to leave the apartment.)

Gosh, I love this. I hope Lynch doesn't spoil this by telling that he constructed the movie from left overs from the series and that there is absolutely no story line....

The Cowboy wrote:Siku...RE: The "switch" was a breakup. I thought so too... and then someone shot it down by pointing out that not only were LL's dishes in boxes, but so were Diane's.

Maybe that's a red herring (can I play my red herring card now?).

Seriously though that's really bad news because if they are just neighbours with no romantic involvement who decided to switch apparments then the question remains.... Why? this is driving me nuts

How do you know Diane's dishes are in a box? I need to watch this again.

I am coming round to the idea that Diane & LL didn't have a relationship but I'm not sure what this adds. I think the key to their relationship is that LL introduced Diane to the call girl thing.

Fonebone I don't remember 2 bedrooms at no 17 so if they lived there together I think they were sharing a bed.

Siku,

If you look carefully when Betty first enters her Havenhurst apartment, there is a 'tee' in the hallway, with the master bedroom to the right, and looking down the hallway a second bedroom to the left, which she doesn't explore. It stands to reason Havenhurst represents Sierra Bonita, and that all the SB apartments are set up the same. Also, carefully observe some of the other scenes - it becomes evident there's 2 bedrooms, with the master having a large window at 90 degrees to the head of the bed, and a second smaller room with a smaller window on the same wall as the bed head. I think the doors to the two rooms open in opposite directions also, one to the right and one to the left. (note the cowboy looking into the smaller room - Diane never got around to moving out of the smaller one in no. 17 - she only dream-fantasized about doing so, thus the idea of moving into a new place: the master BR.)

Siku: RE: LL and Diane breaking up. I think logistically it could work ok. One possible scenario: Diane lives somewhere else, her and LL fall in love, Diane moves into 12 with LL, they break up, 17 becomes available, Diane splits. RE: The boxes. I have a strong recollection (DANGER!) of numerous boxes full of stuff laying around 17 when LL comes to get her stuff. LL only picks up one box, so the rest have (?) to be Diane's? I THINK Shaw talks about this, specifically shooting down the idea of the switch being anything but a switch. Everyone is different, but the energy... their interactions... don't FEEL like a romantic breakup. I think I believed the breakup more than the switch just cuz i can't imagine any reason I would switch apartments with anyone... AND LL looked a pissed when she said "we switched." So I thought there had to be another explanation.

My guess is that a traumatic experience occured at the time of the break up. It could be the breaking up itself, Diane moves out and gets so depressed that even after a few weeks she still hasn't unpacked the boxes. So far, so good. But nr 12 was enlisted so 17 was free and Diane moved in. Then the question rises how LL's box ended up in Diane 's appartment. And why are they so hostile? In the scene where Diane at the kitchen she welcomes the appearance of Laura with unbeleave. The trauma could also be that Laura left her. Furthermore, we first have to establish if the appartments scènes are real or a dream....

Fonebone: I don't remeber the scene you mention well enough but I agree Havenhurst is like a dream Sierra Bonita. Havenhurst has, at least, a double bedroom, but Betty entices Rita to share it with her by saying it's a huge bed, it's crazy to sleep "on that couch" - which to me implies there can't be a second bedroom.

Cowboy: On the contrary to me their interactions really DO feel like a breakup! I think I mention why earlier in this thread but they're both familiar and short with each other.

As a timeline how about this:

1) LL lives at 12
2) Diane moves in with her
3) they split up
4) Diane moves into 17, taking 'her' stuff with her in boxes. But as can happen in a split her stuff and LL's stuff have got mixed up
5) Diane is too depressed to unpack/move in properly
6) LL tries to get HER stuff back from Diane
7) in the dream LL just lies (Diane is writing their relationship out of the dream, creating Rita as an amalgum of LL and Camilla)

By Gads! I think it works! (Now shoot me down )

Can't shoot that down. It's perfect. Fits all facts and feelings/hunches I have. I don't want to get personal here, but (you knew there was a "but" coming, right) ironically, I'm going through a breakup right now, and my thinking is decidedly ... uh... you know. Defective? Anyway... I have NO freaking clue why I said the energy didn't feel like a breakup. "Breakup" was my first impression, I remember. And thinking about the scene now... that's it... anger and some level of intimacy, like you said. And the first impression (strong) I got when LL said, "we switched" was "lie." Like: "I don't have to explain anything to you."

I totally agree, in Diane's dream she makes everything more beautifull: the SB appartments become Havenhurst, LL becomes Laura, and so on. In her dream she goes to the SB building and there things get mixed up. Check the few seconds LL has to take before she comes up with the switched appertments lie.

Yes, yes, yes, and yes. And what about Diane becoming Betty? It's all wish fulfillment, isn't it? Adam doesn't choose HER, but he has a good REASON... an entire Hollywood conspiracy MADE him do it. Bob Brooker didn't pick her, but look at how stupid HE is. ("It's not a contest...")

Again very pausible.