Dan and Herb Take a Walk (pick a scene)

Exclusively reserved for discussion regarding David Lynch's 'Mulholland Dr.'
User avatar
blu
 
Posts: 607
Joined: 21 Oct 2010
Location: Manchester, UK

Re: Dan and Herb Take a Walk (pick a scene)

Postby blu » 07 Dec 2010

andthendougsaid wrote:Something I've always wondered about this scene is whether Herb sees the bum as well. Dan clearly reacts first (possibly just because he's expecting it):

dh1.png

dh2.png

dh3.png


Even before Herb appears startled, you can see his arm start to move up toward Dan during Dan's initial reaction, so he is reacting quickly to something. But it seems strange that he'd become that cartoonishly horrified just because Dan was freaking out.

So does Herb see it too and react more slowly? Or is his only a reaction to Dan's reaction -- worrying about his mental health, and/or being "frightened when I see how afraid you are"?

doug, I think that's an interesting question.

It's always appeared to me that Herb seems shocked by Dan's fall to the floor. If Herb had seen the Bum (and wasn't expecting it), we might expect him to have a slightly different reaction. I've always assumed that he's shocked by Dan's collapse and doesn't understand why it happened. Hence "Dan, Dan, are you alright?".

:hmm:

On the idea of Herb seeming cartoonish, watch the scene again and focus on Herb all the way. The walk gives me the heebie jeebies big time. Lynch creating a mood of the kind that I've only ever seen him create. It's signature Lynch. Uncanny. Uncanny is an overused word that has lost a little of its meaning, but if you look a definitions of it, it's the perfect word to describe that whole scene.

User avatar
blu
 
Posts: 607
Joined: 21 Oct 2010
Location: Manchester, UK

Re: Dan and Herb Take a Walk (pick a scene)

Postby blu » 07 Dec 2010

Minor and possibly meaningless connection.

Or maybe not. ;-)

I'm not a huge fan of religious readings of MD, although some have tried to find that kind of meaning in there. But a couple of clear religious references are linked here.

Firstly we have a crucifix painted onto the wall outside the Guadalajara building:


And the second religious reference to draw your attention to is away from Winkie's, but a prominently placed image in the Park Hotel:


This image was identified by someone a while back as Our Lady of Guadalupe, an image of the Virgin Mary (read more detail in the Wiki link). The thing that I find interesting here is the Guadalajara/Guadalupe word-play thing. I have absolutely zero idea about any possible "meaning" to find in there. Perhaps just more reflection and duality, but a nice connection to me.

That said, I wonder if this connection has been picked up on before, but I can't for the life of me remember someone mentioning it.

User avatar
andthendougsaid
 
Posts: 22
Joined: 30 Oct 2010

Re: Dan and Herb Take a Walk (pick a scene)

Postby andthendougsaid » 07 Dec 2010

Haha, wow...I accidentally made that connection the second time I saw this. I was watching with a Catholic friend who knows a lot about art, and I asked him what the painting was called. He identified it and I said, "Oh, wasn't that also on a building in the Winkies scene?" "No, that was Guadalajara." I felt dumb and forgot about it, but it is interesting.

User avatar
blu
 
Posts: 607
Joined: 21 Oct 2010
Location: Manchester, UK

Re: Dan and Herb Take a Walk (pick a scene)

Postby blu » 07 Dec 2010

Awesome. 8-)

And looking at the image again, I just noticed a second crucifix over Herb's right (his right, our left) shoulder. :angel:

Almost looks like an earring. Completely unintentionally and the product of capturing it accidentally, I'm sure.

User avatar
ctyankee
 
Posts: 197
Joined: 24 Oct 2010

Re: Dan and Herb Take a Walk (pick a scene)

Postby ctyankee » 07 Dec 2010

The second cross was mentioned back when but when I believe. IIRC, someone mentioned that the crosses may be there to show a death of some sort at the location. There are many rough areas around L.A. to put it mildly so that may not be a stretch. I would have no idea. On a different note, it has been confirmed that Guadalajara De Noche is a real business at that location so the sign is not a fake.

User avatar
blu
 
Posts: 607
Joined: 21 Oct 2010
Location: Manchester, UK

Re: Dan and Herb Take a Walk (pick a scene)

Postby blu » 14 Dec 2010

vicster111 wrote:If you take a closer look at the scene with Dan and Herb talking, you get to see some wonderful camera work on Lynch's part. You feel like you're floating as you watch it.

I think this camera work is a signal to us from Lynch that someone in this scene is dreaming. The fact that the camera movement is so dramatic here is what leads me to believe that the dreamer is part of the scene. (You will notice similar camera movement in other scenes, but it is exaggerated here.) I believe the dreamer is Dan.

I was digging through Lynch on Lynch to try to find something else and I came across this.

Rodley: Something that makes that whole telling of the nightmare so unsettling is the way that the camera seems to be floating ever so slightly up and down. It makes you feel seasick

Lynch: That was always part of the idea. Part of the nightmare. The crew had to get a special jib arm and work it into a narrow diner and get it so that Peter Deming and the camera could just float. The floating never really stops; it's like drawing a figure of eight forever. It's got to keep going to get that feel. You've got to be able to say "Yes, that's what is should be. That's what the idea said." You could find that it's better than what the idea said, but you shouldn't ever say "It's less than what the idea said, but let's go with it." This can't happen.

User avatar
kmkmiller
 
Posts: 426
Joined: 29 Jun 2012

Re: Dan and Herb Take a Walk (pick a scene)

Postby kmkmiller » 09 Aug 2012

Been going through all the old threads and really liked this one so thought I'd resurrect it.

Might have to just listen to all MD on head phones to see what else can be found.

So just to concur, the audio effect does seem to create an underwater feel. But right before that I'm going to suggest something along the lines of a hydrogen bomb detonating, I do hear the roar of intense fire fading in and out, but maybe it's just cause I saw WILD AT HEART recently.

Also noticed the crosses positioned behind Dan and Herb as they walk down the path to the stairs going down to wear the bum is.

So just to add that Lynch also managed to make sure only white colored (with some blue) cars were passing behind them.

Oh, and the African American woman sitting in one of the booths, I believe she was at LAX arrival gate.

One other thing.

Image

Someone dressed all in yellow would not be an accident, so any ideas from anyone? Basically, what I don't understand is what the color yellow means in David Lynch movies. If anything.

User avatar
blu
 
Posts: 607
Joined: 21 Oct 2010
Location: Manchester, UK

Re: Dan and Herb Take a Walk (pick a scene)

Postby blu » 09 Aug 2012

The dude in the yellow suit was discussed a while back on RT, but can't find where now. I think the general thinking was that it was another connection to Wizard of Oz, and Winkies.


There's mention on the main site of the yellow/Winkies connection:

The diner name "Winkie's" is a reference to "The Wizard of Oz" wherein the Winkies were the little people living in the west who were dressed all in yellow, enslaved by the Wicked Witch of the West, and later freed by Dorothy.

Another thing to think about is a nod to Blue Velvet, and "The Yellow Man".


User avatar
kmkmiller
 
Posts: 426
Joined: 29 Jun 2012

Re: Dan and Herb Take a Walk (pick a scene)

Postby kmkmiller » 09 Aug 2012

the idea its an atomic bomb sound effect just reinforced by remembering Henry had a picture of an h bomb explosion in his apt in ERASERHEAD. although admittedly interpreting that sound is borderline Rorschach test.

[spoiler]e[/spoiler]

wizard of oz reference it is. appreciated!

User avatar
derekfnord
 
Posts: 132
Joined: 21 Aug 2012
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA

Re: Dan and Herb Take a Walk (pick a scene)

Postby derekfnord » 21 Aug 2012

Generally, I heard the same things others have heard. Two points I'd make...

1. The rhythmic click-clack sound reminded me of a skateboard rolling down a sidewalk, or car tires traveling over a road with regularly-spaced divisions in it (like bridge plates). Combining that with the roaring followed by the muffled "underwater" sensation, gives me the overall impression of hearing all this from the perspective of someone in the trunk of a car, or the back of a van, which then crashes/careens off the road and into the water...

2. Herb's voice calling out "Dan" could easily (especially when muffled) be taken as "Diane." Perhaps someone calling out to her during her dream...

User avatar
Siku
 
Posts: 433
Joined: 26 Jul 2011

Re: Dan and Herb Take a Walk (pick a scene)

Postby Siku » 21 Aug 2012

derekfnord wrote:...from the perspective of someone in the trunk of a car, or the back of a van...







User avatar
derekfnord
 
Posts: 132
Joined: 21 Aug 2012
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA

Re: Dan and Herb Take a Walk (pick a scene)

Postby derekfnord » 22 Aug 2012

Indeed. Not sure how underwater might play into anything (other than the pool from the pool party), though it might be worth noting that Betty supposedly comes from "Deep River."

User avatar
kmkmiller
 
Posts: 426
Joined: 29 Jun 2012

Re: Dan and Herb Take a Walk (pick a scene)

Postby kmkmiller » 22 Aug 2012

Not sure how underwater might play into anything (other than the pool from the pool party), though it might be worth noting that Betty supposedly comes from "Deep River."


Not sure if you saw THE KILLING, the failed AMC tv show that borrowed so heavily from TWIN PEAKS, but how Rosie is killed might seem to answer the question.

If you have no intention of seeing THE KILLING, [spoiler]h[/spoiler]

User avatar
KyleOrKyla
 
Posts: 36
Joined: 01 May 2011
Location: New England

Re: Dan and Herb Take a Walk (pick a scene)

Postby KyleOrKyla » 24 Aug 2012

I've been thinking more about MD than usual, because I'm going to see MD in the theater next week --

I had a little reflection I wanted to share, and this seems as good a place to stop lurking as any (as it's from Dan & Herb's walk, still my favorite scene):

I've been thinking about Dan's line which I'll paraphrase as, "I've had the dream twice, but it's the same each time."

I like the idea of that as the idiot's guide to the two halves of MD. I imagine this is probably basic 1000-foot-view classic interpretation stuff, but I like Dan's line as a summary of it:

you're seeing her life in the dream (how she saw it), then seeing it objectively.

(This basic bit is similar to Inland Empire's two houses that Laura Dern's married characters lives in; one drenched in opulence and butlers, the other a shack-like affair with a lawn full of fighting BBQ guests. Not to get too Buggy Driver, but, a man's attitude determines to a great extent which house he seems himself living in...)

Tying that to the other famous "two" in the movie, "you'll see me twice if you do wrong" -- her delusion dies before she dies; she dies two deaths, thus she's collected by the death cowboy twice.

Again, probably just basic 1000-foot-view stuff; I'll have to re-read the theory pool to get more on the "it's the same each time" line.
ArtGumshoe.com ~ a doodle comic which will eventually contain art gumshoes.

User avatar
blu
 
Posts: 607
Joined: 21 Oct 2010
Location: Manchester, UK

Re: Dan and Herb Take a Walk (pick a scene)

Postby blu » 27 Aug 2012

Kyle.

You need to post more here. Please come back after you've seen that showing with anything new you picked up.

:nod:

PreviousNext

Return to Mulholland Dr.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron