Club Silencio

outofthewoods wrote:

Coffee Cup wrote:The second time they enter the courtyard, Betty says, "I guess you're not Diane Selwyn." Rita says, "I guess I'm not." But how could they know this if they have not yet spoke with DeRosa or even passed by her apartment?

Haha, Betty says that because if Rita WAS Diane Selwyn, the woman in #12 would have obviously recognized her immediately.

Yes, but I'm saying that they haven't even spoke with DeRosa yet. It's two different scenes.

In the 1st scene, they enter the courtyard from the left side of the wooden door and speak with DeRosa.

In the 2nd scene, they enter the courtyard from the right side of the wooden door and head straight to #17. They don't stop at #12 and speak with DeRosa. Yet somehow they have figured out that Rita isn't Diane.

See what I mean?

Coffee Cup wrote:

outofthewoods wrote:

Coffee Cup wrote:The second time they enter the courtyard, Betty says, "I guess you're not Diane Selwyn." Rita says, "I guess I'm not." But how could they know this if they have not yet spoke with DeRosa or even passed by her apartment?

Haha, Betty says that because if Rita WAS Diane Selwyn, the woman in #12 would have obviously recognized her immediately.

Yes, but I'm saying that they haven't even spoke with DeRosa yet. It's two different scenes.

In the 1st scene, they enter the courtyard from the left side of the wooden door and speak with DeRosa.

In the 2nd scene, they enter the courtyard from the right side of the wooden door and head straight to #17. They don't stop at #12 and speak with DeRosa. Yet somehow they have figured out that Rita isn't Diane.

See what I mean?

Interesting way of viewing it, but I see it as them leaving #12 and going to #17, not entering the courtyard, passing 12, and going to 17. Besides, doesn't Betty say that while their still standing in front of #12 just after the lady leaves them? When we see the lady in #12 leave her apartment to come to #17 she follows the same path, so to me that is not entering the courtyard, it's leaving #12. But as I keep saying, this whole Sierra Bonita scene seems to have been editing to purposely be disorienting and nonsensical. It's as though the laws of time and space do not function correctly here (like in dreams), so it would seem impossible to really figure out exactly what is going on here, but it must be a clue.

outofthewoods wrote:Interesting way of viewing it, but I see it as them leaving #12 and going to #17, not entering the courtyard, passing 12, and going to 17.

That's what seems to happen, but they actually walk past the same wooden door that they already walked past. It's like they teleport from #12 to outside the courtyard and then walk into the courtyard again.

outofthewoods wrote:Besides, doesn't Betty say that while their still standing in front of #12 just after the lady leaves them?

No. She says it after they walk past the wooden door.

outofthewoods wrote:When we see the lady in #12 leave her apartment to come to #17 she follows the same path, so to me that is not entering the courtyard, it's leaving #12. But as I keep saying, this whole Sierra Bonita scene seems to have been editing to purposely be disorienting and nonsensical. It's as though the laws of time and space do not function correctly here (like in dreams), so it would seem impossible to really figure out exactly what is going on here, but it must be a clue.

Seems logical, but she actually doesn't follow the same path. She cant actually, because the wooden door is in the other end of the courtyard from #12 and #17. In order to take the same path, she would have to walk past that wooden door but it's about 25 yards away from her front door in the opposite direction of #17.

You've brought up a good point though. Why is DeRosa headed down to #17 if she hasn't yet spoke with Betty and Rita? Perhaps she's just headed down there to get her stuff back, but we see it as her heading down there to get her stuff back because she told Betty and Rita that she would go down there with them.

I suppose it's entirely possible that there simply isn't enough space in the courtyard between #12 and #17 to do all the filming that Lynch want's. So he places the girls back to the entrance of the courtyard and starts filming from there as though they are walking away from #12, and then just hopes that nobody notices that they're actually back where they started.

but she actually doesn't follow the same path.

The film shows the lady walk the exact same path to get to #17 that B&R walk down, so IDK why you see it differently.

In order to take the same path, she would have to walk past that wooden door

We're both focusing on different wooden doors (though I do see the importance of the door you're talking about, as it's also shown twice and further proves how nonsensical their walk really is). In my OP, the door shown in the first pic is the one I find important, because it's shown in a close-up POV shot, twice. Once before they reach #12, and again after they leave #12 as they walk to #17. This door and apartment has a creepy tree in front of it, and the apartment seems to be placed in front of #17, because when B&R are standing in front of #17 (which, again, is a shot that is also shown when they arrive at #12 for some strange reason), we can see the tree behind Betty, to the right. This is further confirmed by that fact that, during that walk to #17, before we see the close-up of this "mystery" door/apartment as B&R walk past it, we see B&R look in the direction of it, and if you look at Rita, she seems to signal Betty to look at it, by nudging her head in its direction, and as the POV shot of it pulls away, it cuts back to B&R as we see Betty turn her head away and back toward #17 straight ahead.

I suppose it's entirely possible that there simply isn't enough space in the courtyard between #12 and #17 to do all the filming that Lynch want's. So he places the girls back to the entrance of the courtyard and starts filming from there as though they are walking away from #12, and then just hopes that nobody notices that they're actually back where they started.

I disagree, I think it is all intentional b/c there are far too many obvious inconsistencies. It's such a juicy segment of the film, filled with many subtle clues. And b/c of the fact that, when they first arrive at #12 we see B&R with the same background as what we see when they reach #17 makes me wonder if they are both the same apartment somehow, for some reason. And if that is so then you are correct that we aren't seeing them leaving #12 to walk to #17.

Go to this scene, and when the film first shows the facade of #12, and then cuts back to B&R supposedly standing in front of #12, look at the background and notice how it's the exact same background as what we see as they walk to, and arrive @ #17. Then when Rita tells Betty "WAIT!" notice how the background suddenly changes completely.

Just so were clear, this is the wooden door I'm talking about.

They walk past this wooden door from the left side of the screen right after Rita's scare.


Then, they walk past this door once again but from the right side of the screen immediately after speaking with DeRosa. In this photo, I circled a branch on the wall that you can see both times they enter the courtyard. There's also a ton of other details that make it very clear that it's the same door.


Would love to hear some explanations as to how these girls walk past this door twice when it's nowhere near DeRosa's apartment.

Would love to hear some explanations as to how these girls walk past this door twice when it's nowhere near DeRosa's apartment.

The way I see it, there's no point singling this one detail out and trying to explain it on it's own, b/c as I keep pointing out, this is not the only odd detail/inconsistency about the SB scene, and it's not the only thing they seem to pass by twice. It's hard to try and explain that one thing without also including all the other things, b/c the ENTIRE SB sequence is completely nonsensical/nonsequential. With every cut that occurs, they're transported to a different spot in the courtyard and none of it lines up, which was the whole point of my OP: to point out these many inconsistencies and the utter ridiculousness of their walks. In that first picture you posted, a few seconds after that, we get a shot from the opposite side of the courtyard headed back toward that door (third pic on my OP as you pointed out earlier), as if they just walked a full circle and are heading back to where they started. There's the "mystery" apartment with the tree that is shown twice during different parts of their walk, the two different backgrounds when they arrive at #12, etc. etc. Sorry to sound like a broken record. :P

One sort of broad, easy explanation for the nonsensical editing in SB is that, by them arriving here, they are now closer to the truth than ever, and so the "dream" is starting to unravel/spin out of control/crumble. This is further supported by the motion blur special effect when Rita storms out of #17 with her hands covering her face, after having seen the corpse. The motion blur effect further emphasizing this feeling of things spinning out of control.

Or, Lynch is prefiguring the confusion we all feel when discussing 12, 16 & 17 Sierra Bonita. Who lived where, and when, and with who? It's all pretty messed up.

Like the figure of 8 motion in Winkies, I respond to the nonsensical editing with a feeling of unease - adrift, vunerable.