Was the espresso guy a previous 'client' of Diane's?

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fonebone
 
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Was the espresso guy a previous 'client' of Diane's?

Postby fonebone » 16 Nov 2011

Remember how the one 'Castigliani brother' was staring at Diane at the party? Then he showed up in the dream puking his espresso. I have this theory that Diane is a call-girl on the mend, and this guy, apparently someone in the movie business, happened to recognize her at the party.

Also recall the close-up of Diane's coffee cup just before she sees him - there's a little foam or something on the top of her coffee, which probably led to the 'dream-espresso'. Her feeling ill at the party might be what's represented by the guy throwing up in the dream (of course this theory assumes the first part of the movie is a dream).

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Siku
 
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Re: Was the espresso guy a previous 'client' of Diane's?

Postby Siku » 16 Nov 2011

I read somewhere on the site that this is a scatalogical reference, and should be connected with the dog poo in the courtyard at Havenhurst. Not sure what the implication or conclusion was...

The coffe scene could be a purging - getting the shit out. If the sight of espresso guy at the party makes Diane feel sick and need to get something out of herself then, what is it that she needs to get out?

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fonebone
 
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Re: Was the espresso guy a previous 'client' of Diane's?

Postby fonebone » 17 Nov 2011

That's a good question. Though it seems her party experience was an overall sickening experience for her.
The movie undoubtedly makes references to putrefaction, such as the decomposing woman's corpse.

I have this theory that Diane's suffering from alcohol withdrawal, so maybe that's why Dan (who represents Diane in the dream) left the food uneaten at Winkies. Maybe eating tends to make Diane sick, though I'm not sure if that's a symptom of alcohol withdrawal. Does anyone know?

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Sparkie0911
 
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Re: Was the espresso guy a previous 'client' of Diane's?

Postby Sparkie0911 » 18 Nov 2011

Isn't it the coffee that allways in Lynches films are the opposit of dreaming? Sort of waking up fluid. But the dog poo is what i don't understand.

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Siku
 
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Re: Was the espresso guy a previous 'client' of Diane's?

Postby Siku » 18 Nov 2011

Good point Sparkie. Of course coffee is associated with waking up and the first thing Diane does when she wakes up is make coffee.

In the dream the (world's finest) coffee is spectacularly rejected, metaphorically Diane is refusing to wake up. On another thread recently there was some talk about the other gangster who then shouts "HELP ME" and that this is a moment when the sleeping Diane's awareness invades the dream world.

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Sparkie0911
 
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Re: Was the espresso guy a previous 'client' of Diane's?

Postby Sparkie0911 » 18 Nov 2011

This is the first explanation about the coffee spidding that sounds plausible, you have me. Still don't get the poo, relation with the boxing kangaroo story?

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Siku
 
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Re: Was the espresso guy a previous 'client' of Diane's?

Postby Siku » 18 Nov 2011

The poo shows us that there's something underneath the beautiful facade of Havenhurst - Diane's 'shit' (i.e. messed up childhood) is invading the dreamworld.

Scatalogical references could be alluding to Freud's theory of the anal stage (film makers love psychoanalysis and I've no doubt Lynch is well versed in this stuff).

Just had a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anal_stage and notice this:

This stage represents a conflict with the id, ego, and superego. The child is approached with this conflict with the parent's demands.

And

Although the stage seems to be about proper toilet training, it is also about controlling behaviors and urges.

No idea where this is going so excuse me for thinking out loud.

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Sparkie0911
 
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Re: Was the espresso guy a previous 'client' of Diane's?

Postby Sparkie0911 » 18 Nov 2011

I have an accademic degree and find that i still have too lottle knowledge to instantly get L's films, just started on TP! Again coffee, diners, abuse, ........

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Re: Was the espresso guy a previous 'client' of Diane's?

Postby The Cowboy » 19 Nov 2011

Siku... yeah... Havenhurst is good/bad. (A haven is... well... a haven, but a hurst carries dead bodies.) It is a beautiful place with dog shit in the patio. That is as far as I took it. I wonder about the kangaroo. Free association lead me to kangaroo court. (I think CoCo called it a "courtyard," didn't she?) Don't where that gets us, either.

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Siku
 
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Re: Was the espresso guy a previous 'client' of Diane's?

Postby Siku » 21 Nov 2011

Diane placing a shit there an infantile guerilla pooing campaign that, following Freud, we could interrpret as an attempt to a) control her environment, b) punish her parents, c) create something of her own.

This interpretation supports other concepts in the movie but doesn't add anything of it's own...

Going back to purging/externalising, the desire to air her dirty laundry, show others the pain she is in, crops up a number of times: killing Dan (her therapist) with the bum, showing Diane-as-rotting-corpse to Rita and finally in her suicide.

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Sparkie0911
 
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Re: Was the espresso guy a previous 'client' of Diane's?

Postby Sparkie0911 » 21 Nov 2011

Coold the poo not just mean that it is ...... poo?

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blu
 
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Re: Was the espresso guy a previous 'client' of Diane's?

Postby blu » 22 Nov 2011

Siku wrote:Diane placing a shit there an infantile guerilla pooing campaign that, following Freud, we could interrpret as an attempt to a) control her environment, b) punish her parents, c) create something of her own.

This interpretation supports other concepts in the movie but doesn't add anything of it's own...

Going back to purging/externalising, the desire to air her dirty laundry, show others the pain she is in, crops up a number of times: killing Dan (her therapist) with the bum, showing Diane-as-rotting-corpse to Rita and finally in her suicide.

I actually quite like the idea of Diane committing a "dirty protest". My only problem with it would be that doing in Coco's backyard/courtyard doesn't quite fit with Coco seeming sympathetic to Diane at the dinner party.

Another proverb/saying that might fit here is "don't shit on your own doorstep", as in if you're going to fiddle in a relationship that you shouldn't, or generally engage in some behaviour that might end in disturbance and distress do it far enough away that you can successfully disengage yourself from it if needed when the time comes.

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ctyankee
 
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Re: Was the espresso guy a previous 'client' of Diane's?

Postby ctyankee » 22 Nov 2011

On the surface, linking the Espresso Guy with a troubled Diane drinking her coffee seems somewhat plausible. One could easily wonder whether the rage that Diane feels at being set-up by Camilla at the party manifests in the dream resulting in Vincenzo's rage around the espresso IF Vincenzo was the Castigliane brother at the party ... but he's not, it's Luigi. A much better link could be made between Luigi's "this is the girl" comment in the dream to Luigi's observing of "the girl" being Camilla Rhodes in both scenes - both the girl that stole Camilla and the girl that (possibly) took her part in the dream. Of course, another possibility is that the boardroom scene is not a dream at all.

How any of this has any link to dog poo is .... tacked on shit.

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Siku
 
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Re: Was the espresso guy a previous 'client' of Diane's?

Postby Siku » 24 Nov 2011

Blu: I hadn't thought of it as a dirty protest against Adam/Camilla. If it were then it's true Havenhurst would be the wrong place! In my previous post I was thinking of a protest against her 'house' i.e. family setting and background - in that context Havenhurst makes complete sense. Havenhurst was supposed to offer an escape from Deep River and a new start free from all her history, but here is the poo - evidence of her lack of control/anger at her parents/inability to create something of her own. She's brought the shit with her!

ctyankee: Luigi is the espresso guy right? And he's the one who meet's Diane's eye at the party (during coffee?). Then I think you're right, we can't link the party to Vincenzo's rage ("Help Me!"). But maybe we can link the espresso spitting (metaphor: shitting? purging?) To Luigi looking at Diane at the party. It's been suggested that he's a client of Diane's, or maybe someone she's had to sleep with to get a part (but then I've seen that said abuot pretty much every male character lol!).


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