The most popular theory out there seems to be that in the dream of Winkies early in the movie, Dan represents Diane and Herb represents her therapist. In my view, however, this is only partially true. 'Dan' does represent Diane in a sense, but in real life, it is Dan (probably not his real name) who is the therapist.

Freud said that a dream always represents the fulfillment of a wish. It was Diane's wish that her therapist be placed in her own shoes, and then mistakenly led into confronting his Jungian *shadow* (the person behind the diner). Diane's reason for wishing this was probably something such as that she was frustrated or angry with her therapist for some reason, such as maybe for 'denying' the existence of some external reality (in the dream, it seems like Herb is denying that Dan's fear is based on reality). Note the 'asexual' nature of the person behind Winkies - the shadow is generally same-sex, so the person represents a man for Dan, but a woman for Diane. (Note in the movie credits that a woman played the part.)

What we have is that in the dream, it's true that Dan represents Diane to the extent that he's the patient; but in reality, he is the therapist. When he happens to be in Winkies near the end of the movie, at the same time Diane's placing the hit, he overhears the conversation and notifies the authorities. This is why two detectives start looking for Diane, or at least, they start looking for her once Camilla disappears. Basically, Diane's therapist has 'betrayed' her.

Freud also said that everyone in a dream is a part of the dreamer... where else, after all, could the material come from if not the dreamer's imagination? (Betty is Diane's sweet, inocent side. Rita her not so sweet side. Etc, etc.) So, yeah. Everything you say could be. Way to go on the asexual nature of the monster behind Winkie's. I bet you nailed that. I don't buy Dan overhearing Diane discussing the hit. (Although that look on his face is... something.) Detectives showing up every few days to interrogate a suspect in a murder? I think they'd be a bit more persistent, especially on such a strong lead. Lamp Lady, after all, found Diane at home. Surely detectives could have.

Yeah, I'm intrigued by what you say about everyone in a dream representing the dreamer in some way, especially since I read where Naomi Watts has said something like this (she said the concept is from Gestalt therapy or something). So perhaps she is offering a clue. But at least some of the representations are Jungian in my opinion, for example Louise Bonner represents Diane's 'Wise Old Lady' archetype, Betty is Diane's persona, and Rita represents her subconscious. Maybe Adam is her animus.

As far as the detectives, I think what's going on is, remember when DeRosa says to Diane, "those two detectives came by looking for you again"? What must have happened is that since Diane's address of record was apartment no. 12 (recall Betty and Rita looking in the phone book), the detectives had already been by no. 12 once and encountered DeRosa. DeRosa at that point must have told them she switched with Diane and that Diane was in no. 17. However, when the detectives went to 17, Diane didn't answer the door, presumbably because she was in her 'deep sleep'. Then the detectives must have come by no. 17 a second time, and again Diane didn't answer, so they went and saw DeRosa again. Once Diane woke up, she encountered DeRosa ("it's been three weeks") and was informed about the detectives.

In fact, it's probably the detectives who are knocking on Diane's door at the very end, when she hallucinates and thinks she sees the old couple in miniature crawling under her door.

Hard to believe a psych major wrote what I wrote. Yeah. Jungian archetypes. Of course that's possible. I didn't need them for my interpretation, so I didn't include them...but they might help. Here's what I meant about the detectives: You've got someone (maybe semi-famous) gone missing at least, and probably her body has been found (the hit man wasn't real subtle... at least to Diane's sub-conscious). And the cops have an eyeball witness to a contract payoff, complete with the victim's photo. If you are the cops, you don't show up every few days to talk to the alleged perp. You park one car outside her apartment, and one outside where she works and pick her up. No way in hell LL gets to Diane before the cops. (LL and Diane were friends... the cops would figure LL might warn her.) No... she's a "friend of the victim who needs to be interviewed," I think. I'll be interested in your take on Brooker. I think the guy is in there for comic relief as much as anything else. I think it's hilarious.... HE directed the Sylvia North Story (Adam did in Diane's dream, but Brooker did in real life.) He didn't pick Diane for the lead. So look what Diane does to him in her dream: turns him into the stupidest guy in the film. "It's not a contest...." Hilarious.

I think Brooker was the real director of the Sylvia North Story, as you said, and Diane's dream-fantasy 'remake' of the movie is to be done by Adam, with herself in the starring role. I also believe that in reality, one reason Diane wants Camilla dead is so she will be assured of getting a role in a real movie to be made by Adam. Diane believes the role will go to Camilla so she decides to do away with her. The problem is the hit man kidnapped Camilla but then bungled the hit, and she escaped - the escape is what's being represented in the dream by Rita walking away from the accident on Mulholland. Diane's knowledge that the hit man is a bungler, is represented in her dream of his escapades in the long-haired man's office (shooting the heavy-set lady, etc.). Diane's knowledget that she wished Camilla hadn't gotten the role but that she nevertheless did, is represented by the blond 'Camilla Rhodes' being the one who we see auditioning.

The accident mentioned by the long-haired man in his conversation with Joe, is another red herring placed by Lynch. From the audience's point of view, the accident is first brought up by Joe, but then it becomes evident that the long-haired guy is actually the one who brought it up first. So it must in reality be some accident that Diane and Joe both have knowledge of, but it can't be one in which Camilla escapes from the hit-man, for a couple of reasons. One is that he delivered the blue key, so he thinks he has Diane fooled, and therefore wouldn't have told her about such an accident. The other is that he retrieves the black book from long-hair in the dream, and he wouldn't need the book if the hit had already been attempted. The red herring part is to suggest to viewers that the accident they're talking about is one in which Camilla escapes, or even that the long-haired man was one of the revelers speeding down Mulholland Drive just before Rita's car got hit.

fonebone, I don't think that this film is full of "red herrings", just things that important things crop up in places in which you don't expect them. And when people can't fit something into there preferred theory, sometimes these things are simply dismissed as red herrings.
I can't think of any reason to believe that the accident that is being discussed by Joe and the other guy is not the accident that Rita walks away from.

So marksman, from what you say, I can only assume you believe that Diane's dream of Rita escaping hit-men in an accident, does not correspond to a real-life event of Camilla escaping from Joe?

Gotta go with Marksman here. And add that it's very dangerous to start playing the red herring game. At that point, you can interpret the film any way you want. When a blatant contradiction is pointed out, one can scurry to the "red herring" defense. At its worst, you can invert cause and effect, and say, "this is obviously a red herring, and therefore proves my interpretation. But you know what? If I ever created a piece of art like Lynch did here, I would be happy if it made people think... period. I wouldn't be too concerned about the subject of the thinking. So..... carry on...lol.

Yeah, I understand what you guys are saying. But I'm not simply dismissing the accident discussed by Joe and long-hair - I'm saying it gets incorporated into Diane's dream as part of the scenario whereby Rita escapes. That's what I meant earlier about dreams 'mixing in' trivial-seeming things with their basic themes.

I think there are definite red herrings in MD. It's a mystery that incorporates many old tropes from films and directors gone by that David Lynch appreciates, and so it would be odd if there was no misdirection from the director in some way incorporated within it.

But marksman and The Cowboy are right that we must be wary of writing off things as red herrings because they don't fit a pet theory, and we end up with our eyes shut to significant things we are being shown.

fonebone, I find the juxtaposition of two of your posts in this thread interesting.

fonebone wrote:Freud said that a dream always represents the fulfillment of a wish.

fonebone wrote:So marksman, from what you say, I can only assume you believe that Diane's dream of Rita escaping hit-men in an accident, does not correspond to a real-life event of Camilla escaping from Joe?

If we are considering that at least in some aspects the dream represents the fulfillment of a wish, it wouldn't appear to be a huge leap to think that Diane is deeply distressed and full of regret for ordering the hit on Camilla (assuming that's what she actually did) and so has Camilla's dream avatar, Rita, escape from a perilous situation. Later when Joe is shown to be not quite the professional killer that back in real land she might believe, that would seem to fit in with Diane wishing that she hadn't done something.

We're following fuzzy logic in the dream so some possibly important things are difficult to pin down, but David chose to leave the dialogue between Ed and Joe in the film when he could possibly have edited around it so perhaps it is significant.

I think it's also worth trying to take the term 'accident' and broaden it out. I accept the intention of the '10 keys' is hard to discern, but we are given the definition of an accident there: "an accident is a terrible event". Perhaps we are supposed to connect something more abstract to the car crash?

Yeah, it's certainly possible that Diane regretted having Camilla killed, so in the dream she, (as Rita) escapes. But the only thing is, that seems to assume she really was killed. I for one think she did in reality escape, the hit was bungled. But that's just my own interpretation.

As far as Lynch's clue, the complete text of it is, "An accident is a terrible event - notice the location of the accident". This seems to suggest more than simply that it occurred on Mulholland Drive. Rita walks off into the woods after the accident - I think what we're supposed to figure out is that it occurred in a wooded area. Then, this in turn should have some relationship to the name 'Selwyn' (Diane's last name) - it is similar to 'sylvan', basically another word for 'woods'. It is also related to the name 'Sylvia' (I checked on Wikipedia), so I think one thing we're supposed to conclude is that in Diane's dream there is to be a remake of The Sylvia North Story as representing a 'remake' of her own life story. ['Selwyn from Canada' = 'Sylvia (from the) North']

The other possibility is that we're supposed to notice the accident occurred on the same road as Diane was on on her way to the party. Then the dream-trauma of the accident might represent Diane's real-life trauma at the party.

fonebone wrote:The other possibility is that we're supposed to notice the accident occurred on the same road as Diane was on on her way to the party. Then the dream-trauma of the accident might represent Diane's real-life trauma at the party.

Yup. That's kinda what I was getting at.

I might have mentioned it before, but that party is in many respects a 'car crash' from Diane's POV. I do think it's weird that we get given that definition of an accident. It seems kind of out of place. But then those clues are a bit weird in general. On the theme of recent discussion, by some definitions it could be argued they're red herrings since they send people off down all manner of different lines of enquiry. And not always helpful.

But then equally, since I like to view the whole film as a kind of mental 'exercise' (for want of a better expression), that could be the whole point of them. I think one of the things this film does by looking deeper at it is allow you to develop a keener awareness and appreciation of what other films and filmmakers are doing. I certainly pick more things up in other films I watch from my study of MD.

Just a quickie: Camilla says to Diane, "shortcut" before the short walk to the party. The "shortcut" is the way Camilla takes to stardom (trading sex for roles), and it leads to (what I would call) a train wreck. (It's where Diane totally loses it.) "Car accident" is close enough to train wreck for my money.

Perhaps so, Cowboy. It think the 'real-life' event the shortcut is based on, is letting Diane into the party in some sort of back way, like via a back door or something, since she's a prostitute and therefore Camilla wants her entry into the residence to be inconspicuous.