Here's an idea that's really gonna mess with your head. (Isn't that what Lynch does? Lol!)

Remember what I said in another thread about the 'dream within a dream' theory being much like my 'mirror within a mirror' or 'reflection with a reflection' theory?

In my reflection theory, remember that the first reflection of the original image will show as an opposite of the original in the first mirror. If you take this first mirror and have it point to another mirror, reflecting the its image to this second mirror, the second mirror's image will be right again and look just like the original. It could easily be confused as the real, original, image.

So here's my proposal. An imagination within an imagination. What if Dan is a product of someone's imagination. While in this 'dream place' Dan also creates a product of his imagination. Herb. Would this make Herb seem real? Or better yet, does this make Herb real?

This could also be called a 'dream place' within a 'dream place', I guess.

We see Dan die. Herb is still there. I think an imagination created by an imagination becomes real (in DL's world). But what effect does Dan's death have in the 'dream place' where he resides?

And do the 1, 2 3's and a, b, c's that we see throughout the film have anything to do with what I said above? Like they tell what 'level' a person is on? Would the number of syllables in their name indicate a number?

Did Dan's death accidently cause a third 'dream place'? Which causes the appearance of a 4 on Diane's carafe and a 'D' on Joe's van?

Just wondering...

I'm cooking so this will probably be the last post for a while. (Happy Thanksgiving all!)

Let me take what I said above and try to explain how it would 'fit' here.

Diane loves acting just as much as she loves Camilla/Rita. I know this because the same love song that plays during their 'love' scenes also plays when she arrives at the studio.

Acting is another word for pretending, which is another word for imagining. What if a person that is imagined by the original person has just as much love for 'acting'. And every one the imagined person imagines has just as much love for 'acting'. It goes on forever. They want to be in a dream place. Think of the Russian stacking dolls. One within another, which is in another, and so on. The original person could get so helplessly lost that they can't snap out of it. They can't 'wake up' until everyone inside wakes up (in order - backwards to the original). If the original can't snap out of it, she will lay there like a 'sleeping beauty' ("Time to wake up pretty girl") until she rots. Much like we see the corpse. The only thing that will make someone want to 'wake up' would be to create a situation that is bad...make the dream place a nightmare. Make the last person that was 'imagined' want to wake up. Once they do, then the person who imagined them can then 'wake up'. If this person doesn't want to wake, create another 'nightmare' experience that will make them want to. Then the person who created them can wake.

I hope this makes sense.

And so on and so forth until you get back to the original person.

We are shown two people who don't want to wake from (leave) the dream place. One is Rita. When Diane hears her saying Silencio, she tells her to wake up. But Rita says "No".

Diane is so desperate not to wake that she is hiding. She even went so far as to switch places with someone.

She refuses to wake. The knocking isn't working. The phone ringing isn't working. The dishes crashing isn't working. Even making things unpleasant for her isn't working. The only thing left to do is to make things so utterly unbearable for her that she will choose to end her life. Her 'death' will make it possible for the person who imagined her to then wake. And then the cycle of waking can continue until it reaches the original dreamer before they die.

The bum is the maker of nightmares that forces people to want to wake when they don't want to. Her work is absolutely necessary at times to preserve life.

I split these off from the other thread as we were veering off the original topic and there might be more thoughts to come on the imaginary friend idea.

vicster111 wrote:Acting is another word for pretending, which is another word for imagining. What if a person that is imagined by the original person has just as much love for 'acting'. And every one the imagined person imagines has just as much love for 'acting'. It goes on forever. They want to be in a dream place. Think of the Russian stacking dolls. One within another, which is in another, and so on. The original person could get so helplessly lost that they can't snap out of it. They can't 'wake up' until everyone inside wakes up (in order - backwards to the original). If the original can't snap out of it, she will lay there like a 'sleeping beauty' ("Time to wake up pretty girl") until she rots. Much like we see the corpse. The only thing that will make someone want to 'wake up' would be to create a situation that is bad...make the dream place a nightmare. Make the last person that was 'imagined' want to wake up. Once they do, then the person who imagined them can then 'wake up'. If this person doesn't want to wake, create another 'nightmare' experience that will make them want to. Then the person who created them can wake.

Sounds a bit like Inception in some ways.

I think different levels of reality/dreams are worth thinking about. I remember asking questions about what appears to be Rita's dreams within Diane's (something that's commonly noted), and also about flashbacks within flashbacks.

eg. Is it possible to view Diane at the dinner party flashing back to the Winkie's scene? What are the ramifications of that? Or are all the flashbacks jumping both back AND forwards in the mind of Diane on the couch?

Thanks Blu, and sorry!

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Aunt Ruth is the creator of the dream place. All of the bags we see her toting around are props for the 'dream' set.

When someone doesn't want to wake up, she has to 'get ugly'. She shows herself as the bum, and whoever else is needed to make the dream go well or bad.

I think different levels of reality/dreams are worth thinking about. I remember asking questions about what appears to be Rita's dreams within Diane's (something that's commonly noted), and also about flashbacks within flashbacks.

eg. Is it possible to view Diane at the dinner party flashing back to the Winkie's scene? What are the ramifications of that? Or are all the flashbacks jumping both back AND forwards in the mind of Diane on the couch?

I just wanna make clear that under my theory we are not shown who is originally dreaming/daydreaming/imagining. Therefore, the whole film is an imagination within an imagination within an imagination, etc. The person who's life is in jeopardy is the original person, because the person they imagined has imagined yet another person, and this second imagined person has imagined yet another person. Dreaming, daydreaming and imagining is what keeps the cycle going further. Once the final imagined person snaps out of their reverie/dream and stops their imagination, then the person who has imagined them can now snap out of/awake from their reverie, and so on. Going back to the original person.

Like I mentioned before, imagine a Russian doll with another doll inside, and that doll has another doll inside, and so on. The outermost doll would represent the original 'dreamer'. The doll furthest inside represents the last person imagined. Once the innermost doll 'awakes' then the doll surrounding it can wake, and once this one wakes, then the doll surrounding it can wake. If at any time one of the dolls does not want to wake, then Aunt Ruth, who had created the dream within which they want to stay, will have to turn this beautiful dream into a nightmare. This usually makes the doll want to wake. She will take whatever measures are necessary to wake the doll (even drive it to suicide) so that eventually the waking cycle will return to the original dreamer. Allowing them to wake.

To create an imagination all one needs to do is sleep (and then dream), kick back with their feet on the couch and stare at the ceiling, have a fleeting thought, lay in bed and stare at a wall, etc.

Diane refuses to snap out of her reverie and let the person who imagined her snap out of their reverie. This is, ultimately, keeping the original 'dreamer' from waking up. They will die if they can't. They will lay there and rot and become the corpse that we saw. A sleeping beauty that never wakes.

Because Diane absolutely refuses to snap out of it, wake up, Aunt Ruth is forced to make Diane's 'dream place' so absolutely horrible that she will take her own life. Aunt Ruth has tried knocking, ringing, sounding alarms, breaking glass, banging pots, screeching wheels, etc. but Diane is not responding. She's still in the reverie. Aunt Ruth tried making the 'dream place' a not so pleasant place to be. Diane still won't snap out of it. So now Aunt Ruth has to make Diane believe that she has done something terrible. And make Diane believe that Camilla (the reason she wants to stay in the 'dream place') is a serious witch. She's turning Diane's 'dream place' into hell.

Some will remember that we see Diane rise from bed after we see the corpse. (And this reminds me, even the Cowboy couldn't get her to snap out of it.) Diane did not rise from sleep. She was laying there awake. How do I know this? Two reasons:
-Joe asks Laney "You'll keep your eyes open for me, won't you baby?"
-Right before Rita comes to the bedroom doorway in her wig and towel, we see Betty laying there staring at the ceiling. Diane likes to pretend she's asleep. She would have to pretend constantly in order not to 'snap out'. That's why we get the impression that she can't stop because of a mental problem. Being awake for so long is why Diane looks so crappy in her white robe.

This also explains what the Cowboy (who is another version of Aunt Ruth) meant when he was talking about 'one more time' and 'two more times' with Adam.

Let's say (for example) that Adam, who is imagined and not the original (real) person, imagined Diane, thus creating her. Diane then imagined Camilla, thus creating her. Adam has the ability to see both Diane and Camilla in his reverie. In having Adam choose blonde Camilla as lead, this in turn helps make Diane's dream an unpleasant one. And it also makes Adam's dream an unpleasant one. Adam shows signs of wanting to stay in the dream place as well. (And this is why we see so many bad things happen to him. It's an attempt by Aunt Ruth to make him want to 'wake up'.) As long as Diane stays as lead, her dream stays alive, and this guarantees that Adam stays as well. He can't leave until she does.

The Cowboy visits everyone in the 'reverie string' to 'wake them up' or 'snap them out' of a reverie if they decide they don't want to leave. He's an intimidating figure.

Diane has shown signs that she wants to stay and will almost surely be visited by the Cowboy. But Cowboy is hoping (banking) that Diane's losing the lead role will be terrible enough of an event to 'wake' her. Adam will witness Cowboy's visit to Diane if it happens. That would count as the first time. If Adam 'snaps out' on his own, Cowboy will not have to pay a visit to him as well. Visit number two. He will have done good. The perfect scenario, of course, would be that both Adam and Diane 'snap out' on their own accord and Cowboy will not be seen at all.

If Adam doesn't choose blonde Camilla then Diane will get the lead role and the 'dream' will continue. Who would want to wake from that? The original person, the real person, will die.

Diane managed to switch places in the 'string' with Camilla, somehow, during the love scene with Betty and Rita. This is the apartment switch the neighbor speaks of. I know that this is when the 'switch' happened because we see Betty staring at the ceiling before this event, and then Rita is awake (with her eyes closed) afterwards. It didn't work, however. Club Silencio. Diane was put back into the correct place here.

As an aside, Aunt Ruth picked the perfect scenario to get under Diane's skin and turn her 'dream' into a nightmare. What would be worse than to have a person who created you 'steal' the person you created and love? And to have the person you created and love treat you so horribly?

Another thing before I retire.

When Betty/Diane sees Adam in his studio, notice how she looks at him. She worships him. Just as we may look at our creator.

I'm also wondering if Adam created 6 different women. "Six of the top actresses want this thing." He could have imagined six different women who would be perfect for his film (the film he's making in his 'dream place') and that in turn created them all. Diane may be one and brunette Camilla may have been another. Carol would be another.

Also, I think the blue-haired lady represents the original person (the real person), though only resembles this person (a dream version), and at Club Silencio she sits perched above 'them all' to show us that she is the first in the 'string' and she sees everyone and everything.

Because she is the first, and everyone else stems from her, she is a 'higher god' (creator) to Diane than Adam is.

Cowboy says attitude goes some ways. If you don't wanna leave the dream place, the nightmare that ensues will become worse and worse for ya. But attitude will only get ya so far...the dream (and you) have to come to an end some time.

Some thoughts on Mr. Roque. I think Roque represents Diane.

His head is small. This signifies that he is not as smart as he thinks he is. He's sitting in a wheelchair and doesn't move. This signifies that he is not the one in control. He is powerless. The dreammaker (Aunt Ruth, Cowboy, Bum) is in control (driving the buggy). His sitting in the dark signifies that he only knows what he needs to know, he's 'in the dark' on most matters concerning the 'dream place'. The blue light and the servant wearing red represent the choices Roque has. Right or wrong. Good or bad. Wake or stay.

Edit**Roque also doesn't speak much. This indicates that he doesn't have much 'say' in the matter.

Cynthia tells Adam he's broke.
broke = B. Roque = Betty Roque = Diane
If I remember correctly, Wally is the only person who calls her 'Betty Elms'. Wally's 'film' will never get made. 'Aunt Ruth' will make sure of that. If his film gets made, Betty would be lead. That would make her want to stay. Cannot happen. Poor ol' fool Wally.

"They said to tell you that you're maxed out at your bank and your line of credit has been cancelled."

What is Cookie, in essence, telling Adam?

Your time has run out here. It's time to go. You won't be given any more time extensions.

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I think the scene where Joe kills Ed tells us something about the 'dream string'.

Notice that the people who are killed here seem to be in order from left to right. Left is closer to the original person and the farther right you go, the farther down the string.

The vacuum guy was a creation of enzyme girl, and enzyme girl was a creation of Ed.

Ed was killed first. Does this mean that it becomes the destiny of everyone that came after him to die as well?

I'll have to think on this. Maybe Diane did manage to successfully switch places with Camilla, but when Diane had Camilla killed it became Diane's destiny to die as well. She didn't realize this was how the 'dream place' worked because she's 'in the dark' (like Roque).