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Thread: Dinner Party Lies? - (blu) Related: |
The dinner party not real?
Am I the only one here who believes that the party scene did not happen entirely? If you watch the camera blurred, then showed a scene. Then it blurred again, as if to imply she imagined the second part. It seemed a little too dreamy and exaggerated if you ask me. When Diane is done masturbating she looked to the fireplace as if she was imagining and suddenly a phone was ringing in a room that seemed unconnected to Diane's apartment and surroundings. That seemed like a dream too. As far as the couch scene, that is probably the REALITY. Remember the close up shot on the ASHTRAY? It was used before De Rosa came to get it. Diane was remembering, fantasizing and for all we know, throwing in some really weird dreams to boot. At the end of the movie she had been sitting on the couch all day, which implied all of the above were thoughts she had on her reality. - (deepmovie)
A subjective exaggeration
I think when you're depressed you
develop a negative cognitive thought pattern. The way you interpret the world
becomes delusioned and everyone is 'against' you in your own mind, which doesn't
necessarily reflect reality. The dinner scene I believe really happened, but
again it was interpreted by her in an extreme manner, with
Camilla
and Adam laughing hysterically as they are about
to announce their engagement. Those laughs represent stabs to the heart of Diane
in her own distorted mind.
And Camilla kissing the blond girl may
represent the potential of Camilla to have lesbian tendencies, and her not
choosing Diane furthered her pain and suffering because obviously Diane had a
sexual obsession for Camilla, to the extreme that she wanted to become her. When
you are depressed everyone else's laughs are always directed at you and your
faults. Diane's mind was warped and delusional in her thoughts before her
decision to have Camilla killed, and the guilt from that was enough to take her
over the top. Silencio. - (dk23)
A true flashback
I
believe the dinner party was real. I don't believe it was filtered thru Diane's
mind as a flashback or a dream. I think there are people easily as cruel as Adam
and Camilla are depicted, especially in Hollywood. Their cruelty may be
exaggerated a little, just like anything in film is when the writer/director is
trying to make a point. I believe it was an engagement announcement party, and
Diane was invited and begged by Camilla "it means so much to me" to come in
order to be humiliated and shown beyond any doubt that her chances with Camilla
were zero. Camilla was finished with Diane, finished using her, and tried to
discard her. The "it's not going to be easy for you" thing implies that Diane
was stalking or begging or talking about Camilla, doing something that bothered
Camilla. That's why Camilla came by to talk to Diane at her door, to get her to
stop what ever it was. Camilla's plan was to crush Diane, invite her, send a
limo, call and say how much it means to her, meet her at the car, hold her
hand and walk with her, all to build her up so the tearing down would be that
much worse. Maybe Camilla was trying to drive Diane to
suicide to get rid of her, or just wanted Diane to feel inferior and not fit
in and see that she had no chance with Camilla who had a man to marry and a girl
to play with leaving no place left for Diane. - (richdubbya)
A set-up for Diane
In the scene at the door Diane
says "no, it's not going to be easy for you, its not easy for me". This infers
that Diane is bothering Camilla in some way, going on the set, making comments
or something like that. This sets up the dinner party. The whole reason for the
party is to humiliate Diane and show her she has no chance to get back with
Camilla so she will leave her alone.
The best way to tear someone down is to build them up first. In fact they
purposely made sure Diane was there, made her come in the back way, Camilla
holding her hand and leading her up to Adam. Then they start to ignored her,
were all over each other, and had Camilla 2 come over and kiss Camilla in front
of Diane to show she didn't even have a chance of being a mistress to Camilla.
The idea was to get rid of Diane for good. The problem was they over did it and
made her angry enough to set up Camilla's murder. Why else would Camilla want
Diane at this high-profile party? Why would she invite her? Why when she didn't
show would she delay the party and send a limo to pick her up?
- (richdubbya)
Some have argued that Adam would never have put up with another woman kissing
Camilla, his fiancé, in the party scene when he had recently broken up with his
last wife over her indiscretions. However,
the double toast right before that scene makes it clear that Adam has been made
aware of Camilla's bisexual past before that kiss, and yet he still allows
Camilla to invite her old girlfriend (or girlfriends) to his party. I think that
we are supposed to believe that he is not as threatened by her relationship with
other women as he would be if she were kissing another man. And he probably sees
the kiss the same way that Diane sees the kiss, as just another implicit way for
Camilla to say to Diane that their relationship is really over. If he knows of
Diane's adoration of Camilla, as it seems logical that he might, then it would
seem likely that he would understand the reason that Camilla would feel the need
to send Diane that message. And the look Camilla gives Diane after the kiss
certainly seems to communicate that message.
In Diane's final memory of Camilla, Camilla is just put a knife into Diane's
heart. Making Diane witness Camilla embracing her two new love interests while
she leaves Diane behind, is unforgivable in Diane's eyes. She finally realizes
that Camilla is yet another important person in her life that has abused her. As
dishes are breaking in the background, Diane suffers something of an emotional
breakdown, and her love for Camilla turns into a murderous hatred.
- (Alan Shaw)
I don't think Diane ever had a love affair with Camilla. She wanted to, but Camilla never showed any interest, and Diane assumed she was straight and not bi-sexual, until Camilla kissed the Melissa George character. Diane's rage is about that not that she was rejected, but never considered as a love partner by Camilla, and the kiss revealed Camilla's bi-sexuality for the first time to Diane, which was far more traumatic than being rejected could be. - (byco42)
Dinner Pool Party vs. Club Silencio
In waking life, Diane does not go to Club Silencio with Camilla, as Betty and Rita do in the dream; she does not begin to shake uncontrollably when the emcee announces that the performance is "all on tape; it is an all an illusion - and yet we still hear music"; she and Camilla do not break into tears when the singer, who "dies" before the song ends, sings Orbison's song of love lost, "Crying (Over You)."
It is at the party, and not the Club Silencio, that Diane learns, with finality, that everything she once wished for and dreamed of is, in fact, "an illusion." Camilla cruelly completes the break with Diane, by flirting openly with another woman and announcing her impending engagement to Adam Kesher. The scene in which the new girl - much fresher and prettier than the haggard Diane - kisses Camilla, and Camilla's deep red lipstick leaves a brand in the shape of her own lips on the girl's coral mouth is particularly devastating. Seeing this, Diane breaks in two; tears well up and spill out of her eyes, uncontrollably. - (Jonathon Valin)
The 'Casablanca' connection
When
the "Sylvia North Story" is brought up, there is a
segment of dialogue
spoken in Spanish. As Diane looks at Camilla during
this exchange, her expression indicates she knows something that is not being
said. And in the fantasy we find out that Luigi is one of the
Castigliane brothers who are power brokers in the movie business, and who
try to help the counterfeit Camilla get a role. And in the reality portion of
Lynch's film, Luigi happens to be at Adams party. If we allow that 'Casablanca'
could be a house, a hotel, a restaurant, or even the famous movie, then the
insinuation may be that Camilla went out with Luigi for reasons that are
shameful to talk about. Which means that it seems safe to say that there are
rumors out there that Camilla is sleeping around to get her parts. And since
this issue comes up while Diane was talking about the Sylvia North Story, we can
argue that this had something to do with why Camilla got that part as well. And
we might further led question whether her involvement with Adam is motivated by
love or something else. - (Alan Shaw)
Camilla says something along the lines of: "I never went to Casablanca with Luigi." A man sitting across the table (we don't know who … just a guest) says "What a shame!" and Adam says "What's the big deal?" Those may be lines from the Sylvia North Story because they're spoken right after Wilkins says, "Oh, Camilla was great in that" and the interaction between the 3 of them doesn't fit in with anything else going on at the party, so it seems that they're having some fun at Diane's expense. - (dropkick23)
-
When Diane is at the dinner, she says "When my Aunt died…anyway she…she left me some money."
What’s missing from that sentence? What was Diane going to tell us, then thought better of? Was she going to explain that when her Aunt died that hurt her connections into the film industry? Was she a bit embarrassed to tell that she expected, her aunt would have given her advice and introduced her to people and things might have been a little better if she hadn't died? It's a tragic truth that without Aunt Ruth, Diane has been afraid and alone, unable to find the right path on her own. -
Blond Camilla whispers something to Camilla, sounding like: "I'm gonna go take a walk outside. Give me a kiss."
However, the French "Making Of" subtitles: Blonde: "I go out for 2 minutes." Camilla: "Ok darling." [kissing] Blondie: "See you later." -
The dinner party a religious reference to the last supper? There is a huge glass of wine between Adam and Camilla. And the "Judas kiss", symbolizing Diane's betrayal.